Cassie: Finding Community

I always look forward to talking with Cassie. She’s a deep well of compassion and kindness. Her heart is hospitable; longing for others to feel like a welcomed part of her life. Cassie truly is one of those rare gems that understands that if you want to be in a close relationship with someone else you have to choose vulnerability and compassion. I feel honored to call Cassie my friend. 

For frame of reference, this interview took place well over a year ago but I remember this conversation between the two of us like it was yesterday: together sitting in our home office on a sunny Saturday morning.

Sarah: How long have you been at Christ church? 

Cassie: We have been in Christ Church over six years, I think. So we came in summer of 2017. 

Sarah: And you had just graduated?

Cassie: Yeah, it was a big time. So, I just graduated, and got married six days later (to Kenny, my husband). 

Sarah: I didn't know that!

Cassie: Yes. Six days later.

Sarah: Wow! That’s wild!

Cassie: Yeah. Kenny had been out of school for a year, so he had been working and was an adult. But we knew we wanted to move here (to Bloomington) so we moved here in July!

Sarah: So can you tell me just a little bit about who you guys were?  Could you describe who you guys are as a couple?

Cassie: So people find our dynamic very interesting. (Sarah & Cassie erupt into much laughter!) I think I am very like, Type-A rule follower, let's have plans and follow the plans and follow the rules. And Kenny is a dreamer and let's do all these fun things and not make plans and just go with the flow. I feel like Kenny is a balloon and I am this string. Have I told you this before? 

Sarah: No!

Cassie: So Kenny's a balloon that floats in the air and has big dreams and wants to do the fun things and I'm the string. We just balance each other out. He causes me to do risky things, ya know, not always follow plans and I remind him that sometimes we need to come back to reality! I feel like we are this nice little contrast. 

I can see that without the string, the balloon would be miles away. So I think that kind of describes our personalities. We both love people, we love hosting, we're passionate about community. So I think that makes us a good team in a lot of ways. And it's really fun when we host. We care about people’s involvement at the church and being plugged in, being rooted. We're both pretty passionate about it, like this is our place, we want to be here and commit to being here and not be wishy-washy with that. Yeah. So that helps too. 

Sarah: Now that you guys are several years removed from that terrible transition from college into “normal life,” what would you say has been something that has been a real treasure and a real joy in this season of life in your church community?

Cassie: K-Groups! 

SIDE NOTE: At our church we have small groups called “K - Groups,” which is an abbreviation for Koinonia. Koinonia is Greek and means: communion, sharing with, or fellowship. In Christianity it is the bond uniting Christians as individuals and groups with each other and with Jesus Christ. It refers to group cohesiveness among Christians. Don’t you love that? I do!

Cassie: So, in the last year we were doing our fertility treatments and so every small group we would share and ask for prayer. And I just feel like I can't pinpoint one time, but like many times where we would share and we were prayed for and there were lots of tears and just that everybody just really walked through it with us. So then the time that we did get to share with the group that we were pregnant… I just get teary thinking about that time because of all the people that prayed for us and walked with us, not just prayed but were there with us and brought meals and encouragement. So, just the joy of being known and cared for by people outside of us who don't have to, they don't have to know or care for us, but they choose to enter into the struggle, too. That's not fun or joyful or easy. So, just our times of meeting every other week and just being loved on was really sweet.

While Cassie has been sharing we’re both holding back big tears of joy and sorrow as we both remember this season. 

Sarah: Yeah, that's a really sweet memory…

 (And then we cry!)

Sarah: What you just said about having to “enter into it,” even if you are like, “I don't know how this is going to shake out…” you won't find that depth of community or being known or knowing others unless you choose to enter into it. I think fear or insecurity or any number of things is kind of like this caution tape... It's like I could choose caution and withhold myself, OR I could move forward in faith, but it's risky! It's just super risky because you could be rejected or relationship might not be reciprocated, or even betrayal!

Cassie: It's a whole other level of vulnerability. I remember when we, I don't know, our second or third year here, we tried to do a dinner club thing with some friends from church and I think it was like three or four young families/couples and we probably met every other week and did dinner for six to nine months. I mean, it was a long time and it was fun. But we never were like, oh, these are the people. These are our people. We never got to that point. And I really felt like it was because nobody was willing to go the extra mile in vulnerability. We were just like friends hanging out. And I remember leaving one time and saying to Kenny, “We can have this same kind of time with people who are non-believers. None of us are willing to go there, to be vulnerable, no one is really benefiting from being in this small group of believers.”

Now, I think it was easy to shift blame, like - “oh, well, they won't share their story…” but, did I open up and be vulnerable?

Sarah: Right! Right…

Cassie: So, yeah, we've talked with some of them that we are actually really close to now. Several, but just that we all kind of felt similar, like none of us were willing to go there. And it's because it's hard. It can be uncomfortable. And I think you're right, insecurity! You don't want to be rejected. 

Sarah: Well, it's like going back to our study this past summer… sometimes the level of shame people feel really dictates how they will share or IF they will share because…

Cassie: That's it… Like will they still love me if I tell you the truth about who I really am??

Sarah: Yeah, it's a big deal, because I just think there's just so much we don't know about what happened to somebody before they came in the room. There's a whole history. There's a whole timeline of things that we don't know anything about, but you kind of have to risk it to see if something blossoms. And that's hard. AND won't happen overnight.

Cassie: It's just really hard. And I feel like it just takes one person starting the conversation. Being the example of, like, we're willing to go there. Kenny and I have said the reason we loved our K-Group is that you guys were that example, you and Caleb, of like, this is really how we are, and this is really where we are at right now. So just to be willing to share the hard with abandon of like, okay, if people don't accept this, that's fine. I feel like someone being willing to go there then that starts the treading of the path for others to walk on. 

Sarah: Thank you…Thank you for saying that. 

So life at church in this season is good. But it wasn’t always that way. Can you talk about the difference between what your initial desire and expectations for coming into a new church community (right out of college) versus how that actually was?

Cassie: Yeah, I think that when I was in college, people told me it would be hard to get plugged in, but in my mind I was like, but not me, it's going to be fine (we laugh hard because we both had similar experiences). Which is so silly, but we just showed up one Sunday and we're like, okay, we're here. It was pretty good timing because it was about to be fall and all churches start the things in the fall. So, we joined a K-Group that year. I joined a Bible study. So I think we had really high hopes of like, we are going to get plugged-in. And we started meeting people slowly. We would have people over for dinner in those first couple of years. And so I think we just had these big high hopes of like, this is going to be so-good. And then it felt like in the first two years, we kind of had gone a mile wide and an inch deep. So it's like we knew some people, but no one really knew us. So that was really challenging. I feel like we were like, what are we doing wrong? We're trying to have dinner with people, we're trying to do these things. We're in a K-Group, but we really only talk about the sermon and I don't really know anything about these people or this sermon (lots of giggling from us both!). So, yeah - that was hard. A lot of expectation versus reality of just like, it didn't just happen overnight. Even though we were trying, it felt like we were really trying. 

Sarah: I feel like you guys are unique in that because I think oftentimes I hear stories that are the opposite, where it's like, “Oh, I'm afraid to kind of go there and do that,” or, “my schedule doesn't allow for that, etc.” So, it always feels like the opposite story that I hear is the more common story where you're saying you took great strides and great efforts…

Cassie: We did. Yeah. And it was still just hard. And I think relationships take so much time and I think in our minds we'd have these people over for dinner, but the next month it'd be a different people group. So I feel like we were just spreading ourselves kind of thin, but going a mile wide and an inch deep. I think it did feel hard, too. I remember showing up at the same time as some other young people, and so it felt like we got a little lost in the mix. People assumed “they’re a part of this group,” even though we weren't. But I remember, Fred and Laurie were one of the first people, a couple from our church who noticed us being new and invited us over. That really stands out to us. It's like, okay, they notice people and they reached out. So that was pretty special. But over time reality set in: where are our people at? Where's the community? How do we get known? I also was wrestling with spiritual doubt in resting in my identity, in Christ. What does it mean to be a Christian? It was a really hard time.

Sarah: Yes. That's a lot going on in the heart. 

Cassie: A lot in the heart. Kenny and I were talking about this earlier; I think we were really good at putting on a good show. I wanted people to think I was a good Christian, but in my mind I was like, well, maybe I'm not.... I just spent a lot of time crying out and crying, just crying… God, where are you? Am I a Christian? What does it mean to be a Christian? Yeah. And I think just I don't know who I would have told, but maybe just to share that with somebody… just to be willing to be vulnerable and share those things. I don't think I was for a good amount of time. Probably a couple of years. 

Sarah: So what was the difference? What happened? Where you're like, I'm going to choose to share this? 

Cassie:...I think…so we were volunteering, too. We were involved. People knew us. We were doing the things. But it was a show. I remember being like, “should I even be teaching children's church? Do I even believe this stuff?” But I'm teaching the kids. But I know that I did. It just was like the doubt would set in and we were volunteering with youth group, and we went on the youth group winter retreat with the kids and the teaching there (I honestly don't remember what it was about), I remember Kenny and I met with the pastor, and he was very charismatic, which was super helpful and new for me. And I feel like he led me to the Lord. He asked me: “What do you picture the Lord saying to you?” And I just was quiet and wondered, what is the Lord saying? And I felt like it was: “I'm yours.” So on that retreat, I mean, I was just sobbing. I feel like I had this heart rest of, okay, this is who I am. I belong to God. And it's not because I perform, it's not because I'm great, but I'm the Lord's and he loves me. And he holds out his hands to me in His arms. That was a turning point of just truth. I am not a good enough Christian. There's no such thing. And so I feel like that kind of…I think that was the same year that then the Lord just started to provide some really sweet community. And I don't feel like I did anything different. Just the Lord really showed up and provided for us. So it's interesting to think back. I want to be able to say there's practicals, and I did these things, but the Lord just provided. Being willing to be vulnerable I think was huge, but apart from the Lord, I just couldn't.

Sarah: Absolutely. I think at the end of the day, it is all on the Lord because it's his good for us and for the group that we're a part of the relationship that we're in. It is his good for us and for these others that something either blossoms or it dies. All glory to God that he makes life, he makes a relationship happen in their perfect season.  

Cassie: Yeah, absolutely. Like dependence on Him for that. I feel like the stripping away of performance - that was deep. I loved all my relationships in college, but I feel like a lot of them were based in, “I want to do good things” and “I want to perform well.” I was trying to perform and it wasn't working.

Sarah: Like, “Am I loved even if I don't perform at all?” 

Cassie: Yeah! Do I have worth here? If I'm not a good enough Christian or not making disciples or not whatever?

Sarah: Yes!

Can you just paint a picture of what the Lord has done in you and what he was teaching you? 

Cassie: I feel like the biggest thing is breaking me of being a performing Christian and being willing to be vulnerable and say that I don't know what I'm doing and I'm not going to arrive. I just feel like I shared in Bible study last year. At some point I feel like my Christian life has just been this circle of: the Lord gives the gospel. And I realize that I need Christ. I am broken of my sin. I'm not capable of doing anything but Christ. He gives life and then I rest in that for some time. I don't know, minutes (laughter!) or days, sometimes a hot minute. And then I just start to climb up the circle again of: okay, but now I'm going to perform. Okay, now I have Christ, but now I'm going to do these things and just really trying to perform until again, I feel like I get to this breaking point of: I'm not doing good enough. What is happening? Why this, why that? And then the gospel falls afresh again like, oh right, yeah. I am nothing apart from Christ. So I just feel like that has been the theme of my Christian walk, but especially my Christian walk in adulthood. I just continue to fall back into: let me try to do better next time.  And it just feels so silly. Surely I should know by now, surely I should know by now that I'm not capable of performing good enough or whatever. There's no such thing as “good enough.” But we are really blessed at Christ Church that we have such good preaching of the gospel. Our pastor talks about “gospel amnesia” and we are the little goldfish in the bowl. And I just feel like the goldfish in the bowl is really representative of me. I'm swimming around, I forget there's a castle and then oh, a castle. (laughter!) I don't think I've heard that before. Yeah, I mean the amnesia thing. Yes, but like the goldfish. Yes, the goldfish sees the castle and it's like, oh my gosh, a castle. And then they swim around and they forget and then oh, a castle. So I just feel like that's pretty accurate of my brain and heart. 

Sarah: What did you specifically pray for in that season of transition and has the Lord answered any of those prayers? 

Cassie: I want to be honest and say I don't pray a whole lot. (lots and lots of laughter!) I just really struggle with self sufficiency and I'm just going to do this thing on my own, this thing called life. So I feel like in that season of the really dark times, I don't know that I was praying constantly, but I would be broken and just cry and almost like, groans too deep for words, like the Holy Spirit for sure stepped in. Our heart's desire was to be known in community and I wanted to know that I was a Christian in that really tough season of doubt. I was really praying a lot for these things, just tossing up a prayer here and there. I wanted to be known and have people walk and to do life with and just to have some rest. Also I feel like I just wanted to have some rest in who I am, my identity within Christ. The Lord really did answer, but just because he was good. Not like I did anything. God just provided abundantly. 

God provided that little book group with a few girls reading and learning about marriage together. We would read this book, but we mostly would just talk about life and share prayer requests and pray for one another. And that was like coming up for air, to just be known and have this space where I could come and be okay and be accepted and be loved. And I think that was the same fall that we joined a K-Group where it felt like people were willing to share their stories and struggles, not everyone ya know, but a lot of couples went out on a limb to be real. And it was so-so good. I just think that God really answered prayer that fall. We just felt settled, a little more settled and plugged in in the Fall of 2020. So three full years after being at Christ Church, until it felt like, okay, these are really the people. 

Sarah: When I hear your story like this, I just think: wow, nothing has been wasted. Your suffering, longings, deep desires…the Lord has answered the cries of your heart. Praise God! Praise God! 

Cassie: Yes! It's interesting, too, he provided that community at that time, and that was a couple of months after we had started trying to conceive. So it was the very beginning of our three year struggle with infertility. So how good of God that he really provided people to walk with us through that time? I made the connection that we had three hard years of loneliness and three hard years of infertility, but I hadn't really connected that in my mind. It was in that time when God gave us that community. Yeah. That's really cool (many, many tears between us).

Sarah: Isn't that cool? What perfect timing (and more tears). I think oftentimes I think I know since I’m a first born, I have a teacher background, directing experiences, etc., time management is my-jam and planning is what I do. Like, this is the goal, this is how we're going to get there, and we're going to do all these things and it’s gonna be awesome! I love planning, but I just think time and time again, the Lord reveals His plans are better than my plans, better than any of our plans. So that's really beautiful. Yeah, it makes me happy for you. 

(And then we cried, a lot. But we were together and it felt just right)

Sarah: So here’s my last question for you: What would you say to new college graduates who also are longing to be connecting to their church communities? What wisdom would you give them in moving forward relationally? 

Cassie: Those first three really hard years where I felt like I didn't have my people here yet, but I had a close friend named Jess. We would see each other once every other month or maybe every third month. Just to have someone that knows me and knows my story - It was like a taste of community. Like, every couple of months, just a little taste of community. And she would encourage me and remind me of the truth in the gospel. Because we were already there, we didn't have to build this new thing… even if they're not where you are, you need to have a person because they can remind you of the Truth and remind you of what God says. Because, especially if you're struggling, it's really hard to believe the Truth on your own. So just to have somebody. 

Then also just to be willing to be vulnerable. Be the first person that really says how you're doing, not to wait for the other person to go there. Because I think you can wait a long, long time if you take that approach. And if nobody is willing to be the first person to go there, then you just are friends. Which is fine to have friends, but you want to have your people. 

Sarah: Yeah. And I’d add, I don't think everybody actually wants this and that’s OK. People have to be free. But what I long for in Christian community is that we move away from performing like Christians and simply sharing our neediness for the Lord. A safe place where we cry out to the Lord together.

Cassie: I think if we were all really honest, we’d all say, no one has it all together. Ya know?

Cassie and Sarah share a knowing look. Knowing that we are two women who don’t have it all together and find a kinship in our brokenness and God’s unconditional love for us. Grateful hearts for a sister-in-Christ like her.